vue - profit: organic farming vs. permaculture farming

1. I'm not talking about maintaining. I said specifically, "harvesting." In a system like this, to harvest a sufficient quantity of product by hand to make a sufficient income at a market requires a lot of labor. I agree with you, permaculture systems require less to maintain, more to harvest in marketable quantities.
2. Eh... I assume the one here has... well, slightly wrong idea of a perma system. Main crop areas in a perma system demand no more labour than 'conventional' agriculture - the are managed in a different way. The whole idea is that it demands carefull planning, and sometimes takes time and effort to establish, but much less labour (mechanical AND hand) to maintain.
3. Well permaculture systems do require a lot of labor still. Not so much in the planting and weeding, but if you actually want to turn a profit and sell your outputs, it takes way more labor to harvest from a perma system than any other. Something to keep in mind.
4. I am one, I preferred not to have kids. The human race survives, we dont actually need to keep reproducing so much in reality, most children are because a man does it for a woman to cement that relationship or many have ego view of bringing children up like a mini me (mini you) with similar morals and beliefs as oppose to in dependant beings. However that digresses, I simply mean profit driven society doesnt work, peoples success judged by their belongings etc doesnt work.
5. jeje Jaques Fresco minds or something ;)
6. All business should be profit free. That means to run a business is an altruistic endeavor with no margin for error. It not only has to meet your survival needs to continue but provide for others at no benefit to the business owner. How is a business to survive if the raw imputes or demand for your product or service fluctuate in price or in a barter system availability? I think what plagues the world is Usury & the Love of money. 
7. Lets be clear tho mi amigo. I said the system was evil as oppose to those forced to operate within it. All business should be profit free and every person should have a roof over his head and food to eat. Unfortunately even in these so called civilized west, very few people own their own home they just have debt, mortgages etc and are forced to wok for profit to pay off these debts. Capitalism doesnt work, hence 1% of people have all the money.. or did you not realise ;) See my point? 
8. (continued) Your operation is 'legally' a non-profit assn, but there is no such thing in the real world. Every act by every member is for gain. Yeah, I know you hate the terminology, but please ask yourself why do the members try so hard. It is because they get something out of it. It isn't about money. Now, back to Permaculture... Even the plants expect a return on the expended energy of putting roots down into the earth. Bees? Greedy. Nature is reward based just like we are in many ways.
9. Hello again MCS, I am not trying to belittle you or your core belief system. And I am very glad that you replied. As indicated above, rewards can be either RECOGNITION (a powerful motivator) or COMPENSATION which can even include barter and exchange. Your own operation uses all of these, and I commend you for it. Until last month, I put all of my fruit trees outside the fenced back yard and told the neighbors to just help themselves. So, evil Capitalistic me, what is my reward? Recongition!
10. and I don't do those things for recognition, nor reward. I do them cos I give a shit ;)
11. Depends on the rewards. I operate a non profit association, people are rewarded with a wage but only because society says they must pay a mortgage and people need to pay this. Other people actually volunteer to work and we provide food and accommodation. Profits are reinvested in people not on certain individuals who wish to own several properties and a brand new car.Sure,it might be a profit based society you have been brought up in but it doesn't mean that that is the best way to be..
12. Should a farming man work out in the sun and in the rain for ten hours a day - for NOTHING? We "small-minded people", as you might refer to us, think not. Good deeds deserve rewards, simple as that. You may believe that people do things without expectationof reward, but you will be mistaken every time. You and I share in common that we do things FOR REASONS. Those reasons are these: recongnition and compensation. Even parenting is based on these two pillars of volition. Exceptions please?
13. I agree MCS. Other people are too small minded to be able to think differently. The only reason we ever thought of profit was because we have been forced to. All business should be non profit
14. Um, what has this to do with the topic at hand? Come on Paulist, try to focus. Focus. Permaculture. Real World. Growth. Life. Health. Focus. Yes... that's better. There might just be more to life than Ron Paul. And as for Freedom, Ron Paul is not really about Freedom, he's about a political party, and there is no freedom in political parties. Okay? Now, let's all get back to permacuture. Ommmmmmmm.
15. "Evil of Profits"? Please tell me, my friend, what are the things which you do, with effort and energy in your own life, by which your goal is "to not profit"? Every volitional act you have ever taken was in expectation of reward. You may talk this game, but your actions betray you. You live for reward, just like the rest of us. There is no evil in being rewarded for doing good things.To not get rewarded for doing good - THAT would be an injustice. Profit from these words. It won't hurt much.
16. i think you are all doing a great job and i strive to make my farm function like yours. thanks for the inspiration and motivation. love and gratitude from the naked farmer
17. Careful with inflating gratitude or you may soon owe me your first born child! ;o) No. 1 is to identify the climate zone and country you currently plan to live in; another issue is your language preference. Once you're there you try to Google to find national permie contacts and get an idea of which teacher is good+ teaches in a way which suits your particular learning style. However the more you self-study before hand the better. permies.com is a good place to start + buy a permie book or 10..
18. think I will stick to mycorrhizae :)
19. A shame that things always come back to the evil of profits tho. Hopefully our kids will be in a far better system ;)
20. @larkindo closer to holzer's systems.